Going to college is a big decision. Knowing what you want out of your time there, and choosing the right way to go about it is something you should consider. In this episode, we start a two part series on the pros and cons of going to college. Tune in this week as we even get to add one more sister (our sister Rachel) into our discussion!
Welcome to Business Talk Sister Gawk. I’m Bekkah! And I’m Ruthie and today we have with us Rachel our sister! And I’m gonna give a little intro for her and then Bekkah is gonna tell us the title of the episode. Rachel is the sister that’s between Bekkah and me in age rank. So she’s third, I’m fourth and she has gone to a couple different colleges. She’s currently in the Army National Guard. She’s super awesome! She’s very passionate about a lot of things in life
Bekkah: She’s also a welder!
Ruthie: That’s true! As my roommate says, “Buck wild!” So she’s “buck wild” and then Bekkah’s gonna tell us about what this episode is gonna be in regards to.
Bekkah: We are gonna be talking about the pros and cons of going to college today. Rachel, thanks so much for being with us!
Rachel: Yeah thank you for having me!
Ruthie: We should note that Rachel’s nickname is Roph which we’ve talked about in a previous episode and I frequently call her that so if I say Roph or Rophy that’s Rachel.
Bekkah: Okay so we’re gonna start with some of the pros because I think that it’s always good to start out with some positivity. Rophy, what do you think are some pros of going to college?
Rachel: Well, I think the biggest pro is that no one can take knowledge from you. No matter what happens in your life you always can keep your knowledge and to build on that and to push yourself through education is a really great thing.
Bekkah: Okay, Ruthie you have to tell us what your opinion is on the pros because we have a lot of them and we’re gonna just jump into a whole bunch but it’s kind of a rapid-fire kind of day so go ahead, Ruthie.
Pro & Con: College Can Allow You To Distance Yourself From Family
Ruthie: I put this as a pro and a con. Not having a lot of time with your family. So a con – not having a lot of time with your family. A pro – not having a lot of time with your family. You get to kind of branch out and be your own person and I think that that can be a really good thing sometimes.
Bekkah: Yeah, so true and like every single one of us I feel like has had a completely different college experience. Private versus public and online versus in person. There are so many different options for it and now so much so with covid, there are so many more things that you can do online. If you’re going to college a pro is that if you pick a major, you’re going to start being in classes with people who have very similar passions and interests. That can just continue to fuel your understanding and your learning of that topic but it also could be something where you realize, “Wow! I really don’t want to do this at all.” Which could end up being a con because it’s a waste of money, right? If you’re doing something that you’re not passionate about.
Ruthie: Yeah but in the long run it’s good to understand that early on. If you take a class and you’re like, “This topic does not interest me.” But I also think along those same lines this was another pro that I had, you were talking about learning alongside people who have the same interests as you, you get to hear so many different perspectives and I think that’s a really valuable part of college, that you learn from a very diverse set of people and you’re constantly learning not just from your professors but the people around you. I think that’s really valuable.
Bekkah: Okay, Rachel, what do you think? What is another pro for you?
Rachel: One of the pros, if you do it right, if you pick the right majors that actually are going to help you in life if you’re smart about it it’s going to hugely impact and help you along your way. It helps you set up for your future jobs to give you a good leg to stand on you know.
Ruthie: Yeah, one of the pros that I had is that it sets you up for being able to get jobs a lot more. Background for me, I went to a state school for a year and a half and then left for some family reasons and then started working at a digital marketing company and then had surgery and then now work at a big digital marketing company and that was definitely something as I was looking for jobs, consistent feedback that I was getting is that you don’t have any college experience.
Pro: College Can Help You Increase Your Hiring Opportunities
I still applied for those jobs even if it said in the application that you had to have college experience, I would still apply for them anyway but that was consistently some feedback was like, “Oh, you don’t have the education requirements.” That’s like where Rachel was talking about, it sets you up for success is that you have a leg to stand on. Is that a phrase? I thought it was, is it two legs? It feels like you’d need more than one leg, I don’t know.
Rachel: The phrase is “a good leg to stand on” *yeeeah that’s not the phrase. I looked it up… It’s “have a leg to stand on” lol – Ruthie*
Ruthie: Okay. One leg to stand on versus two legs, just kidding. Okay, anyway but it sets you up in that regards to be able to get more experience for things and getting different jobs. Okay another pro, Bekkah. Hit us with one.
Bekkah: Okay so you can make a ton of really good connections if you pick the right school. I definitely think I saw this especially in certain private colleges as well as specific programs at different universities. If you want to be say in the medical field or in business or whatever and you pick a university that does a really good job at those things, it sets you up with a really good long-term network. One of the things that I noticed, especially like if you wanted to get a job in Corporate America or whatever, if you went to a certain college and you networked with those people when you handed in your resume to get even an entry-level job they’re like, “Oh, you went to this college? Oh! I did too! Yeah! Let’s try to figure this out.” or like, “This might not be the best position for you, but I happen to know that we’re gonna be hiring for this.”
There are a lot more of the relational side where if somebody knows the university you went to there can be additional networking leverage that most people don’t have just because they know that this degree is very intense. This program is very intense and not a whole lot of people get into it therefore if you graduated from there you come from a good educational background that you’re going to be able to endure in the position that you have.
Pro: College Can Help You Get Into a Field That Requires Special Certifications
I will say that I see this specifically in the field of education as well as the medical field in the state of Minnesota and in the midwest in general for business where if you come from the midwest or if you go to get a degree in nursing or whatever from the state of Minnesota and you go to get a job in pretty much any other state they’re saying, “Absolutely, we want you.” Because Minnesota is known for having some of the best education and some of the best programs in the medical field.
If you’re gonna do something in college, the advantage of college is that you can be strategic in going to those places, but it’s sometimes competitive so you have to be wise about how you go about that and set yourself up to be successful in going to college. So, Rophy, tell us about what are the positives of learning and social skills you can get from college and like the group project experience. I feel like you have some good feedback.
Pro: College Can Give You Opportunities to Learn & Work With Different People
Rachel: Oh… Group projects. I’ve had some really great group projects. I’ve had some really, really awful group projects.
Ruthie: Haven’t we all?
Rachel: Oh, it just feels like it doesn’t vary. There’s no in-between. It’s really, really great or really awful, but socially, you do get to know people from diverse backgrounds which is really great. My first college I went to was a private college in Ohio. Wonderful college, way too expensive but I absolutely loved it. The people there were fantastic and my group projects there were actually really great because people were it was open communication, it was like you say what you needed to say and it was very helpful. We would have a disagreement on a social level we still kind of debated on a personal private level too of things. We were just very open to all different kinds of ideas and stuff. Then I transferred over because of money.
Con: Some College Cultures Are Not Open to New Ideas & Debates
The group objects there were kind of awful because they weren’t they really weren’t open to a whole lot of ideas and there were a lot of different people from a lot of different backgrounds but it seemed like everyone came from the same mindset. Which was really odd. A lot of things like I noticed a lot that I didn’t understand the culture there. The new kind of feel to it. It was like you really had to tiptoe around your wording. Tiptoe around a lot of discussions so you couldn’t kind of debate very much.
Bekkah: A high tension environment.
Rachel: Yeah it was high tension.
Ruthie: So would you say that’s a pro of college, though? Having a good culture like if you find a good college the culture is a pro?
Rachel: It can be. It can also be a con, because a lot of colleges a lot of “state” colleges, I should say, have kind of cultured one mindset.
Ruthie: Groupthink?
Rachel: Yep, high groupthink. I would say because a lot of the professors kind of encouraged that kind of groupthink and that was really difficult.
Bekkah: Well, I think when you really look at a business, in general, that’s the same concept. Every culture is different and so choosing the right culture and where you go to college is super important.
Rachel: Oh, yeah.
Bekkah: Let’s move on to another pro because we gotta get to the cons as well.
College Can Help You Make A Higher Income
Ruthie: I think we would be remiss if we did not mention one of the main pros that people think of when they think of going to college and that is being able to get a job that has a higher income. We had a resource here from study.com and it just kind of gave a graph of different education levels in relation to how much money they make on a weekly salary basis. Then they broke it down by master’s degree, bachelor’s degree, associate, some college no degree, high school diploma no college, and then no high school diploma.
We’ll add a link to that in our blog post but it says “average weekly salary in 2019 in the third quarter.” A master’s degree was about around $1,500, bachelor’s $1,200, associate’s $874. This is all weekly again, and then some college with no degree is $874 again, then high school diploma no college $749, and then no high school diploma is around $606 on average. And I would be interested to see where they pulled this data from because I know that that is also –
Bekkah: It’s right there. The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Ruthie: Is that like across the whole US or are they pulling –
Bekkah: Yes.
Ruthie: Okay.
Bekkah: One thing I do think is really interesting about this data and I tried to look at specifically the 2019 weekly salary, when you go through from no high school diploma to a high school diploma it’s a difference of $143 dollars a week, right? Then if you go from a high school diploma to some college you increase your weekly pay by $125 a week. What’s interesting to me is that some college and an associate’s degree there’s no change. Absolutely no change in having an associate’s degree over just some college. They’re equivalent in terms of the pay rate which I found just fascinating.
Then when you go from an associate’s degree to a bachelor’s degree your pay goes up an additional $407 dollars a week. Now, this is the most significant increase, from associate’s to bachelor’s. Then when you look at the master’s, if you go from a bachelor’s to a master’s, per week your pay goes up $278 dollars a week in this 2019 weekly average salary for the US data. Now I find that interesting. Basically, if you’re getting your highest return on investment out of all of those categories it seems the most financially lucrative by week to go from associates or some college to a bachelor’s degree, which I found very fascinating in this data because that’s not something that I ever thought to consider.
If you have an associate’s degree versus, “Oh, well, I went to university for a few semesters but I didn’t get a degree from it.” There’s no financial change right now from the 2019 data. I think that’s one thing Rachel wanted to talk about was the difference between having a degree right now versus going into the trades or like skilled labor. So the cons – that’s our list now – Rachel you want to hit that one first?
Rachel: Okay. Trade schools, that’s what people are really hiring for right now. If you go to be a plumber, you’re going to make massive amounts of money right now because no one’s going into that. No one’s doing that. All the people that are plumbers right now are very near retirement. That’s what’s needed right now so that’s what’s going to pay. If you’re going into these trade schools or if you’re going as an apprenticeship even that’s where the money is. I know people are like, “Go pursue your passions and stuff.” You know, you can do a trade skill, get the money for it, and then do your passion on the side.
Ruthie: Yeah which is kind of like what we talked about with Alex Rumsey in one of our previous episodes. She talked about how she’s doing real estate photography to be able to fuel her passion for more artistic photography. So that makes sense and there’s just definitely a market for blue-collar jobs right now. I guess that’s kind of a pro of going to trade school, but then also, like Rachel was saying, apprenticeship. Another con I guess well that one was kind of a weird hybrid: pro and con that Rachel gave. Bekkah, what did you also have for cons there?
Con: College Could Be A Bad Idea If You Get an Impractical Degree
Bekkah: Okay so impractical degrees. If you get a degree that actually isn’t, first of all when we were talking about supply and demand if the market is saying, “Hey, we have a glut of so many of these people,” don’t go get a degree in it because your chances of getting a job are going to be way more competitive. When you’re thinking about, “Okay, where is there a need? What degree can I have?” Right now, I’m going to tell you, I see a massive need for people in psychology.
Specifically, they actually go get their doctorate and work with children. There’s just not enough of those people going around right now and it’s almost like for people who need that for kids they’re literally traveling almost like a state away to find someone who’s even qualified. That’s a huge need and what does that look like to then get that degree? Because you do need a degree, which I’m thankful that that’s something that someone needs to have a required degree in and the government mandates that because otherwise, you’d have crazy practitioners out there being like, “Oh! I’ll solve all your problems and then…”
Ruthie: Rachel, what would be an example of an impractical degree then?
Rachel: So yeah like art.
Ruthie: Fair warning to anybody who is currently going for art.
Rachel: Here’s my thing, if you are going for art, if you want – if you desire art, if you are passionate about art, do it. Go for it. Don’t do it as a major. There are so many resources out there online, at the library, anywhere, to do art, to learn about art! Youtube! Anywhere, but if you’re going for an art degree so here’s the thing about the return on investment: college is a major investment both for time and money. Major money! When you’re doing things like art or history and not dissing on any of these real degrees or whatever or like any of the theoretical degrees if you don’t have a plan for what you’re going for –
Ruthie: You’re just like, “Oh, this is interesting!”
Rachel: Yeah if you’re like, “Oh! This seems kind of cool! I’m interested in this.” And that’s the degree you’re deciding to go for you’re not going to get any return on that. At least not for a very long time. An environmental science degree, that’s the degree I have and I would say that that’s pretty dang useless.
*all laugh*
Alright. I can admit that. I made a mistake.
Bekkah: But okay here’s the thing, I want to clarify, if you make a mistake and you’re in your third year, just finish it out! It’s worth the degree to be done with it and say, “Yes this is on my diploma.” Like you have a diploma versus quitting at year three because you’ve already invested three-quarters of the way through you should finish it out.
Rachel: Yeah, I would agree with that but also hardcore try to make a plan. What I’m trying to say is that the investment that you’re putting into it, you need to at least try to make sure that you have that return in the end. With those degrees, it is significantly more difficult to get an actual return investment into what you’re putting in. In that case, I would say that, quite honestly, it’s not really worth it. If you want to try to go for it first, I would highly recommend if that’s your desire to go that way, to first go to a community college and have that feel of it first.
Con: You Could Spend a Bunch of Money on Credits that Don’t Transfer
I would encourage everyone to go to a community college first and get your generals out of the way, but know what college you want to go to afterward to make sure that they can transfer over as generals. Because sometimes they don’t match well so make sure that they match and able to go forward and fight for those credits when you do go over.
Ruthie: When you but otherwise transfer to a different university for those credits to transfer.
Rachel: Yeah, just have an actual plan at least and if you don’t have a plan go to a state college or rather – community college and feel it out. How is this? What can I actually do with this? Does this feel right?
Con: College is Expensive and Can Give You Student Debt
Ruthie: College is not for everyone. That’s something that really grates on me is that everybody just always is like, “This is what you do after high school.” But it’s not for everyone you know so it would make more sense to go to a community college first, pay a lot less to find out if you don’t like it than it would to go to a private school, spend $30,000 a year –
Bekkah: That’s a cheap private school!
Ruthie: Oh yeah! On the low end!
Tip: Before Signing Up for a Semester of Classes, Do Job Shadowing
Bekkah: Oh okay actually I have a little bit cheaper option too that I actually think is super valuable. That’s not even when you’re talking about cons, “Oh, you can try it out at community college.” Yes, you could or which I feel is a little bit more of a good way to go about things especially if you’re just trying to figure out “is this really something I’d be interested in without having to be stuck for an entire semester doing it” and you hate it. Find someone whose job is that and shadow them. Or even just get coffee with them and say, “Hey, I’m really interested in this, but I’m not really sure if it’s something I want to pursue. Can I talk to you about it and find out how your day goes? What does that look like for you?”
That is totally what I realized it a very young age. Our mom is super good at doing this and finding those people that can tell you if this is a good idea or not. For a long time, I thought I wanted to be a lawyer. So I literally sat in on a court case and just watched the court case and I kid you not! I literally was sitting outside of the court case waiting and there was a next person that was supposed to be on trial for the same case – I mean like multiple defendants and literally the kid said, “So do you think we’ll get caught?” And I was like, “I am witnessing this! In front of – I’m just an innocent bystander!” And I’m like, “What is going on!?” For me, that whole experience of being like, “Wow! I don’t know if I could work to defend somebody that’s clearly guilty who’s claiming to be not guilty and this is a losing battle!”
Ruthie: I had never heard that! That’s funny! I didn’t know that.
Bekkah: Oh yeah! After that, I took a long hard look at, “Wow. Court cases take a really long time and you have to prep all this stuff and I don’t necessarily know if I really want to do this kind of law.” Then I just decided, “I don’t really want to look into that any further right now.”
Ruthie: Also PSEO. Look into that, too, because that’s a good way to have that whole semester-long commitment but you’d be able to take college classes in high school. Certain states have that. Some don’t but there are a lot of states that offer post-secondary enrollment option. Is that what it is?
Bekkah: Yup.
Ruthie: “Opportunity”? *It’s “option”* For kids in high school and there are also APA classes and things like that where you can look into that and be able to get college for free while you’re still in high school which is a good option! Do that!
Bekkah: Anytime you can get education for free, if you take it seriously, it’s a great opportunity.
Rachel: Oh, yeah! Take it!
Con: Sometimes Universities Are Behind in Their Curriculum in the Technology Field
Bekkah: Another thing that I wanted to add as a con especially if you’re going into technology as a degree, sometimes universities are one of the slowest places to get caught up on what’s happening in what are the most current things you should be learning to be ready for the tech field. I mean, I definitely think if you go back to a math foundational aspect there are a lot of things you can you need foundationally to then be able to apply to all these other things within like C++ and programming and all these things but the reality is that I know so many people who have worked in an environment in which they were doing something like working at Caribou and getting some classes from a free resource or maybe they paid like a hundred and some dollars to get a programming class and then they already have more advanced skills in programming on their own because it’s something they enjoy and they’re getting a full-time job now programming than if they went to get a four-year degree that they had to pay for.
Technology advances so quickly it’s really hard to update course material every single semester with what’s new because you have to be researching all the time. We’re seeing that especially within anything to do with search engine optimization or anything to do with digital marketing. It’s really hard when I look back at my marketing degree. I learned a ton about the foundations of marketing and I think it was really good, but all of those digital aspects, I learned after college. I learned it. I had to research it on my own or with the jobs that I had or whatever like there’s so much that changes so quickly they just can’t document all of it to keep everyone updated on what’s going on. Knowing that sometimes those smaller price point things are actually going to be more beneficial to get the most current knowledge of what’s working and not working within technology is a huge thing.
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